Savage Shock Towers

[Nitro RC Nerd]

I spent many months abusing my Savage X 4.6 in attempts to find the points of failure. Almost everything led to the nylon towers. For some reason there is a myth in the Savage community that alum towers are bad. However, I wholeheartedly disagree with that and have proven it out. Thus anyone wanting to make their Savage as durable as it can be and not running alum towers....I'm curious as to why.

 

Full disclosure I come from a racing background where alum is a four-letter word. I'm not some shelf-queen basher guy who puts alum on for show, so absolutely CF (quality CF) is much better than alum, I just cannot find it.

 

Anyway, hoping to shed some light on alum towers and Savages.

 

p.s. I don't work for any manufacturers so have not hawking products, and will tell you the top three durability pieces for the X 4.6 IMO are as follows:

1. Alza suspension block kit

2. Aluminum Shock Towers

3. TBR Front and Rear Bumper

 

NOTE: The weight addition for #1 and 2 is less than 1/2 ounce if I remember correctly. #3 is only needed with extreme jumping IMO. 

 

#1 and #2 eliminate the 70% of broken parts I'd encountered in extreme bashing. Of course with it being a Savage there are 101 ways to kill a rat, but the intent is to absorb as much punishment up front and properly distribute it inward.I hope this helps....and if you've had bad experiences with any of these parts let me know. I've had none...whereas before I had a lot. ;-)

Edited December 15, 2014 by Nitro RC Nerd

[Tug]

That's all well and good, but ally towers won't flex, so all the stress is transferred to your plastic diff housing.

I'll stick with stockers myself, not failed me yet.

[Nitro RC Nerd]

1. Alum towers do flex. Just not as much as the Nylons.

2. This is a good thing. You state less flex can damage diff housing. I've found the opposite to be true. I assume you mean bulkhead as the diff houses are made of alloy. The amount of flex in Nylon is what puts pressure on the A and D blocks. 

3. Have you ever heard of anyone breaking their bu;khead? Of course you have. I know at least six people. Guess what towers they were running? Stock. It's a common problem.

4. The way to protect the bulkheads are via the suspension blocks, and 'Bulkhead brace kits' are sold, which protect the A and D blocks from the amount of trauma caused by the give (i.e. flex) in the stock towers.

5. The towers themselves are rarely damaged. They will deform after a while....and this is why folks think 'No problem with my stock towers'. However, I can easily rattle off a list of broken parts I was able to prove is due to the immense flex of the stock towers (specifically the two-shock setups).

 

There is a reason that all top surface machines, those of extreme quality, run alum towers. In fact, the only upgrade to those are CF, which has even less flex.

 

So sorry, I am completely missing how 'alloy towers won't flex' can cause 1% of the damage that the stock towers do with their extreme amount of flex.

 

As noted, I have no skin in the game. Just stating facts of what I tested, and am unaware of any other analysis, so that is all I have to go on, cognizant tests. So far it's worked. ;-)

 

Anyone else having durability issues with your Savage (and run it hard  enough in stock form and you will), just something to consider. Too many things are dismissed 'just because'. I have found the alum towers to be one of them.

 

Tug, thanks for the reply. I love discussing this stuff in detail, so I appreciate the opportunity.. I see on SC where you stated you are new to the Savage, so definitely keep an open mind on this if you start seeing problems. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by Nitro RC Nerd

[Nitro RC Nerd]

Going back the bulkheads....the suspension blocks, the Alza piece I noted protects it. I'm unsure if the Alum towers alone would protect it (as the alum towers protect other areas). My point is that it only reduces damage to the bullkheads, not prevent it.

 

The areas alum best protects are Steering components, electronics, and manifolds.( i.e. pushing the header through the roto-start, etc.) The best approach to fully lock it down are the three items I noted above. 

[Tug]

No, I meant the housings, not the diff cups. Housings or bulkheads, same thing in this case. I can't agree with you though, I feel the ally towers would snap the bulkheads.

[Nitro RC Nerd]

Okay, Diff housings/cases are what you put the sun/planetary gears in (and contain the fluid). Bulkheads/Gearboxes are what you put the houses in to mesh with the pinion. This is standard among most brands. At least I know TLR, Mugen, Tamiya, OFNA, Hot Bodies, Xray, etc. Assume HPI follows suit...but if not this is what I'm referencing.

 

No problem at all disagreeing. I always say data never lies and am unaware of anyone snapping a bulkhead running alum towers. However, I know plenty that have busted the bulkhead while running the stock towers. This is not surprising once you take a deeper look in to it.

 

As stated, alum towers are standard across most surface vehicles (certainly the durable ones) and folks are not breaking their bulkheads.I'm not sure what would make the Savage any different. 

 

Finally, I'm not sure how many folks you know who have broken a bulkhead, but it's almost always the the bulkhead plates (which sit atop the skid-bump). In this instance, the tower has no effect on that part whatsoever. These commonly break due to weak suspension blocks, and as noted the Alza bulkhead protector takes care of that. The other susceptible area is the joint post. I bent them like candy with the stock towers but have yet to bend one with alum. Trust me, the last thing in the world I wanted to do was put alum shock towers on, but durability will always win out. 

As stated, unfortunately the Savage community is chock full of 'myths'. Alum towers being anything but a durability upgrade is one of them. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Toxic Basher]

I have a set of flm alloy towers on my toxic beast. They've been sweet so far but I've not used the truck a great deal.

I've had cheaper alloy towers on my other savvies and completely snaped one clean in half from a heavy landing.

[Nitro RC Nerd]

Oh yeah. The alum towers are only as good as their metal. Just like anything, there are weak and strong ones. Quality and cheap ones. I'd not recommend 'cheap' anything on the Savage., especially cheap aluminum. 

 

As I noted, one work-around is to put four shocks on the tower to help brace it. It was designed for four shocks, and problems started when they switched to two-shocks. However, due to performance handling boosts and less weight, two shocks with alum alum seems like a better choice. I do know some guys who have braced the towers (in multiple ways--each with a much heavier footprint than alum towers). In these instances Guys who I know braced their towers did so simply to save money (from alum towers). It's the same concept..

 

I went back and looked at some notes from the six guys I know who have broken their bulkhead. Ironically, five of them were running RPM a-arms . They were told RPM a-arms were a 'must'. ;-) What's interesting is with this design, I can certainly see how a more rigid a-arm would put additional pressure on the bulkhead. I have no idea if there is a correlation (my RPM arms binded something fierce so I took them off immediately after mounting them). Have yet to have problem with stock arms, myself. Unfortunately, the five guys who I noted above were running them did not have problems with the stock either. It's a mess. 

 

So many 'must haves' any many do more harm than good. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by Nitro RC Nerd

[Nitro RC Nerd]

For clarification, I prefer CF over alum (in almost all cases) for towers. I know folks say the down-side is alum will only bend while CF snaps, but I've never, ever snapped a piece of CF on any vehicle. If anyone knows of a machinist works with quasi iso carbon fiber, and is open to custom projects please let me know. I have a few custom parts I would like to have made and will  buy in small bulk as I know I can resell them to others. Thx

[Tug]

Traxxas Revo and Maxx; diff is held inside diff housing, diff housing is held between twin vertical bulkheads. Tower attaches to bulkheads.

Savvy; diff is housed inside diff housing which is also the bulkhead.

That's how I see it.

Sun and planetary gears are inside the diff cup. We're not talking about these.

As for ally towers, no. They won't flex and will therefore cause more pain.

Yes, I do need to fit the Alza hinge pin braces, but it can wait, I don't drive em like I stole em.

Ally bulkheads/diff housings? Maybe, but not Integy!

Carbon fibre is too brittle, I don't like it.

[Nitro RC Nerd]

Ah....never owned a Traxxas. They obviously differ in terminology from all the other brands I noted earlier (TLR, Mugen, Tamiya,  Hobao, etc). Ironically, Hot Bodies (sister company of HPI) also uses the diff house term in the popular sense as well as bulkheads  Looks like HPI calls the houses 'cases' and bulkheads bulkheads or gear box. Go figure. So yeah...we are talking about the same thing--Bulkhead. ;-)

 

I think the bulkhead is a lot more stout than you might think. I've heard of alum ones, but I've also heard of alum fuel tanks and alum air filters alum a-arms, etc, (all of which seem to be more for show than anything).

 

Regarding carbon fiber, like anything there is good and bad. But inch for inch, I'll take a piece of quasi iso CF over 7095 alum any day. I'd say I have 30-40 CF pieces employed in my vehicles (combined) and I have yet to break a single piece. It's not for everything, but I'll take lighter and stronger any day. 

 

Believe it or not, I typically avoid alum like the plague. It's almost always a last resort for me. In fact, I'm wanting to ditch the alum diff houses (cases) on the Savage. Not needed. It only adds weight.

[Nitro RC Nerd]

Regarding the Alza piece...I personally think firming up the suspension blocks are the #1 thing needed with respect to the Sthe aavage. Aside from throwing pins, it hinders any chance of a block being bent. I think I went through 3-4 stock blocks. None of them snapped, but they became slightly bent. It doesn't sound bad but the truck is tweaked at that point (as the toe, kick-up, and anti-squat are uneven). 

 

The only thing I'd like to see incorporated is an 'Next Gen' version that provide threaded hinge pins using 01 steel. This allows you to fine-tune the amount of play so the arms have no resistance. I spoke with Dejan about it but I don't think the market is there...yet. I'm not yet two gallons in on the enhanced block system, and will be curious to see how my hinge pins have held up being captured as such.  The down-side of capturing them is they are more likely to bend.  I started running the joystick style block systems that Mitch Looper (M2C) designed a few years back. These are pretty cool because even if you bend one (which will eventually happen), it rotates in a bushing...thus the arm has full travel. 

 

Regarding the bumpers, during the durability testing (~6 gallons) I realized that the vast majority of the time when I broke a piece it was while jumping off my ramp...specifically landing such as below:

 

A wise man once told me the key to a strong vehicle is to firm up the front and rear. I suggest TBR simply because I've dealt with them before and I know their designs work with minimal foot-print. The stock bumper simply does nothing to the type of force employed when jumping this truck.

 

I'm curious what durability upgrades you guys have made to your Savages? I incorporated quite a few (as things broke I fixed permanently) but the bumpers, suspension blocks, and alum towers are the top three I'd recommend.

 

Thx all

 

[DreXeL]

My Savage is a heavy old beast and I bash it hard. I've never broken a single shock tower. That said, I have braced my shock towers using Hyper 7 upper suspension arms going from the top of the towers to the TVPs.

I agree on the Alza bulkhead braces though. Essential upgrade of you're going to bash your Savage anything like 'enthusiastically'.

Edited December 18, 2014 by DreXeL

[Nitro RC Nerd]

My Savage is a heavy old beast and I bash it hard. I've never broken a single shock tower. That said, I have braced my shock towers using Hyper 7 upper suspension arms going from the top of the towers to the TVPs.

 

 

Oh, yeah. As I noted I know quite a few guys who've done this (or variants thereof). The 'intent' is to solve the problem of the towers movement.

 

For clarification (as I understand it got buried) it's not the towers themselves being damaged that is the issue....it's the fact they move. In fact the only advantage of having Nylon is because they flex making them harder to 'break'. So the idea is not to get stronger towers so they won't break, it's to either brace your existing ones so they don't move....or get one made of mainstream material for shock towers...which is aluminum. ;-)

Edited December 18, 2014 by Nitro RC Nerd

[Tug]

But that's still my concern, that ally towers won't flex, thus forcing the bulkheads to take the strain.

[atom3624]

I'm not one for all of this alloy show and flash, as you know ......

 

Alloy / Carbon all is great by me.

I leave the body mounts flexible - plastic, nylon, carbon impregnated nylon .... that's how my Maxx is and it works.

 

Al.

[Nitro RC Nerd]

I agree, Aluminum sucks. If it's needed it's needed. I can tell you that I've seen a lot of Savages go head to head against T-Maxx's and it's not even close. No disrespect to the T-Maxx, but I've yet to see one that can keep up with a Savage. If I open a can of worms, so be it. ;-) Not trying to spark any debates because there is not one based on what I've seen. If the T-Maxx were more durable I'd have one for sure. It is what it is.I get freaking nasty with my Savage and the platform allows me to make it truly durable. Being a buggy/truggy guy I have a high bar for durability and refuse to let my vehicles break regardless of how I drive them.

 

But yeah, I agree 100% that one should only put stronger parts on as needed....as quite often it is the design itself that needs attention. Drive any MT hard enough and you'll figure out what is needed.

[logicpaul]

Braces from the shock towers to the TVP`s are a good way to distribute some energy and stop the shock towers bending. . My towers are bent over just from having the innovative rc V2 big bores mounted on them.

My slash lcg has a carbon fiber rod that braces between the shock towers... 

 

How about a similiar option for the savage using 10 -12mm carbon fiber tube, the energy can transfer to the other tower.

[Nitro RC Nerd]

Here is the tower brace 'mod' I see most often.

 

http://s1105.photobucket.com/user/LLkoolskillet2/media/shock1.jpg.html

 

This is good if you don't move your shocks, but since there is only one mount on the arm I stand them up/lay them down on the towers quite often--so as noted I just got a rigid tower like all my other vehicles and called it a day. I've seen many variations of it. The idea is what I've been trying to relay in this thread. when the towers flex, bad thins happen. Below was the final straw for me....

 

The link you showed above is another variation I see...but I caution this sort of stuff unless that person is ready to dismiss any performance handling characteristics of the vehicle because when you redirect chassis flex is's not a subtle change.

 

That's why I scratch my head when I see all these people coming up with the concoctions..and I wonder why they don't just get an alum tower?

 

 

 

Landed on its arse...you can see where the tower his the manifold (the gear box is shot)

Edited December 21, 2014 by Nitro RC Nerd

[DreXeL]

My IRC Big Bore v2 shocks were the reason I braced mine in the first place, I hadn't actually seen it done before. Here's what I've done:

[Tug]

^Nice!