The Dark Knight Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I'm about to take my first step into the scale/crawling world with an Axial SCX10 Dingo kit and I would like some advice please regarding motor & battery choice. I'm wanting to build my SCX10 to be more of a scale/trail rig but I'd also like it to be capable of a bit of crawling but trails is where I'll use it the most. Brushed motors seem to be the most commonly used, from what I've read it's due to them producing more torque? However, I'd prefer to run a sensored brushless system if it'll suit my needs? From the research I've done, I've found that 17.5t & 21.5t brushless motors seem to be the most commonly mentioned. Does anyone on here run a brushless system? If so, what motor do you run? Do you run 2S or 3S lipo? I plan on running a Hobbywing Just Stock esc with crawling software on it. Hobbywing actually sell the Just Stock esc in a combo with a 21.5t brushless motor but I've only got the esc as I wasn't 100% sure about getting a 17.5t or 21.5t brushless motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Can anyone offer me advice on this? I'm hoping to order a motor by the end of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz! Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 hi fella, ill try to help so here goes..... a sensored brushless system would work and work well in dry climates but as were in the good old uk moisture and water are in abundance so this combo is far from able to handle water (especially around the sensor lead) therefore if your wanting a bit of speed and heaps of torque spend the money on a decent 35-45t motor and use either 2s or 3s lipos, now you would need a external bec depending on what esc you decide (noj has the perfect esc for sale in his thread) which will take 3s all day long.... this will give you good trailing speed and immense torque. for the icing on the cake, speak to member igbandy on here, he rebuilds brushed motors (open endbell ones) and they come back with better performance figures than new ones. this would then be about the best combo you could use in a scx10. hope this helps a bit, gaz. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Thanks for the advice Gaz, much appreciated This has led to some more questions about running a sensored brushless combo though. I run the same Just Stock esc in my 1/10 touring car which I race, I have waterproofed this by taking the esc apart and coating the circuit boards & sensor lead ports with Lazy Goo. I have also done the same to my brushless motor, receiver and servo. Can I not simply do the same for the SCX10? I've raced in some very wet conditions with my touring car with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghazghul Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I like my Losi xcelorin sensored brushless in my Scout / AX10 crawler on 3S, but I've never got it wet. I run a 13.5T on 3S which I'd guess has way too much wheel speed for a scaler but I like the torque / speed combination. 2S was fine but I could get a 3S that was only slightly larger for a bit more run time. Never had a problem with lack of torque but you don't get the same drag brake effect with a brushless setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Thanks for sharing your set-up and info, it certainly sounds a powerfull set-up. I'd prefer to stick to 2S as that's what all my racers use meaning I can share batteries if needed. I've read a real mixture of stories on the web regarding brushless set-ups but as said above in the first post, 17.5t & 21.5t seem to pop up the most. 17.5t seems to be the motor to go for if you want a bit of trail speed and some crawling. 21.5t seem to be the motor to go for if you mainly want to crawl. I can get a decent 21.5t motor reasonably cheap, so I think I'm going to go for that to start with and then maybe try 17.5t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghazghul Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 With the largish spur you have plenty of room for tuning with pinions too... Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Cool, sounds good. That's me ordered the 21.5t motor What pinion gear would you guys recommend starting with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghazghul Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Stick with the stock one and see how you like the speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Do you know what size pinion the kit comes with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HRA Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Do you know what size pinion the kit comes with? 20T if i remember correctly.My set up is generally a 45-60T motor using a 14T pinion and standard NIMH (lasts for a good 30-45mins),and has bags of torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Thanks, I'll try the stock pinion first and can always change it if needs be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghazghul Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Assuming 1700Kv for a 21.5T (varies with brand) 20T pinion and 87T spur and 109mm stock tires you'll get 8.3kmh (5.1mph) on a fully charged 2S. That's a bit over walking speed? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 The shop I bought the motor from reckons it is around 1800kv. I'll only be running on 2S. Will that speed be good for a bit of crawling and trail driving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 I have another question regarding my brushless 21.5t motor I'm getting. I can advance/retard the timing on it. When I advance the timing, it increase the rpm but you loose some bottom end, am I correct in saying that if I retard the timing, that will give me more bottom end and less top end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtsbasic Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Brushless speed controllers don't normally advance the timing until the rpm's are on the rise. Its not fixed like the old adjustment on the motor can. So you can play with it, but its more likely to affect the "feel" of the throttle rather than the actual wheel torque at low rpm's. I would love to find a sensored brushless setup thats 100% waterproof, but until then its the only brushed vehicle in my workshop.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 My kit is arriving tomorrow, so once it's all set-up, I'll have a play with the timing on the motor and see how it feels. I'm reasonably confident with my waterproofing technique but I won't be going through deep water with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghazghul Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 From a quick google you should never run below 0 degrees as it will lose efficiency and run hot. In my head : with advance timing you are starting to energise the coils a bit before the rotor is at optimal position which gives you more power / speed at the cost of more energy used (and so heat / efficiency loss). If you run retarded timing you are not energising the coils until after the rotor is already in the correct position. It would be like advancing the timing so far it is interfering with the previous phases work. You also have to allow for the combination of motor and ESC timing. Motor timing will be in effect all the time and the ESC timing when it is programmed to apply it. I believe this is why you can set the timing to -ve values, to correct for an ESC starting with unwanted positive timing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the explanation, makes sense. Regarding the esc timing, are you specifically referring to how the esc controls the phases or are referring to adding boost/turbo timing? The esc I will be using is blinky only. Edited June 26, 2014 by The Dark Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Can anyone tell me how to stop the body on my scx10 tilting over to one side? My scx10 is box stock apart the wheels. Does changing to 4 links help this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghazghul Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 This is usually due to the torque transmitted down the shafts the the axles. Does it do it more under acceleration and the other way in reverse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yeah that's correct, I presume this is normal then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghazghul Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I know in the AX10s / Maverick Scouts it happens a lot but stock they are tall and on longer shocks which raises the COG and makes it worse. There are a few fixes: - a stiffer shock / more pre-load on the corner that drops and also some thicker shock oil in that corner. - lower COG - flip or mirror the transmission which puts the motor on the side that wants to lift. Flipping it also puts the motor back but lets you still use the spur cover. Mirroring requires rebuilding the centre gearbox and put the motor in front again and on the other side but the spur cover wont fit. - 4 link suspension - but 4 link AX10 still twist, just differently. - be more gentle on the throttle on high grip surfaces! Tbh I always assumed the SCX10s were less prone to it, but I've never owned one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Thanks for the tips, much appreciated I'll take a look at some of them after the weekend as I'll be taking it out for a run on Saturday and won't have time to make any changes before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_d_fox Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Mirror the trans on the SCX10, flipping it rounds makes little to no difference... been there, done it, now have it mirrored, its very very simple and there are lots of videos on youtube to help you. You can also take advantage of having the trans apart and marine grease everything to help with waterproofing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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