The XRay T4 2013 thread (Renamed)

[ta05]

My trf415 is 4 seasons old and really in need of replacement.

 

So, do I go for a Tamiya trf417, Tamiya ta06 pro, Schumacher Mi5, or the X-Ray T4?

 

***I race on carpet, on foams so a front diff is needed as the spool makes the car push and understeer where I race***.

 

I think only the ta06 comes with a diff up front, but sourcing a diff for any of them wont be a problem.

 

I am leaning towards the T4 for now.... Simply because of their durability, which is a concern for our unforgiving wooden track barriers.

 

Unbiased opinions welcomed.... Good and bad points of the above cars you own please

 

I will be building the car up and doing a build review for it too.

 

I will be using an rs pro and 13.5 motor (blinky), with a futaba 9550 servo.

 

Really excited about it!

 

Thoughts?

Edited October 9, 2013 by ta05

[dopeydog]

I made the move from xray to TRF and love it. I just bought a V5 and the level of kit on the standard car is so much better than an Xray where everything is an optional extra.

 

Double jointed front driveshafts as standard,

Alloy centre pulley

Steel rear diff joints not alloy.

 

There's probably lots more. On rubber though the T4 is supposed to be good on carpet but I've no idea about foams.

[ta05]

Hmm, I always thought xray were more durable than Tamiya, but I guess thats only my opinion lol.

 

I need a strong car for Horsham due to the wooden track markers and I don't feel the Tamiya is up to it.

 

Also, I am concerned the spares backup for Tamiya isnt as good as it could be, so thats another reason for swaying towards the T4.

 

I like the look of the mi5 but its a bit of an unknown - and I dont know of anyone who races one.

 

I have had my good times with the 415, its won me a fair amount of races in its time but I do feel its time to try a different brand now.

 

I have been on the x-ray site and the more I look at the T4, the more I am swaying towards getting one, and a front diff for it!

 

I know Dom really liked his t3 when he used it at Horsham, for me, the T4 just seems to ooze quality and innovation.

[Quantra]

I have a 417 and a T4 so I can advise you on those 2.

 

417

Great car, almost infinitely upgradeable with loads of parts from other manufacturers too.

Cheap parts from HK.

Some parts hard to find in UK at times.

Need to spend some time on set up out the box.

Set up moves every race and needs resetting.

Strong but not indestructible.

Traditional TC design.

Easy to drive with right set up, nightmare to drive with bad set up.

Good build quality but requires shimming in places and some tweaking to get perfect.

Looks great.

Battery position is fully adjustable.

Easy to adjust and balance anti roll bars.

Easy to set up perfect steering geometry (servo to steering bridge).

Alloy spacers included but no spares.

Requires selection of suspension blocks to change toe, anti dive, anti squat and roll centres.

Pinions are easy to fit.

Easy to balance with hex driver under each shock tower.

Diffs require some trial/error to build perfectly but once the mesh is set it is easy to rebuild and change oil.

I would rebuild shocks every week as they had air in.

Any standard shock spring will work.

Kit bumper is OK but mine didn't last long before replacing with xray hard bumper.

TiNi coated suspension pins and shock shafts as standard.

 

T4

Also a great car but not so many option parts.

Cheap parts from HK but not as cheap as Tamiya.  Some parts too expensive IMO ie ECS.

Excellent parts support in UK.

Works well with kit set up, very easy to tune to your liking.

Holds set up very well.  Even after crashing the set up sometimes stays perfect.

So far not broken anything.

Traditional TC design with lower CoG.

Super easy to drive with right set up, still driveable with bad set up.  Very forgiving in all situations so far.

Superb build quality, everything fits together straight out the box as per the instructions.

Looks horrible with orange anodizing.

Battery is not adjustable with kit parts.

Anti roll bars need to be removed to adjust and can only adjust in 1/2 turn as smallest increment.

Design does not allow for perfect steering geometry (servo to steering bridge).

Plastic spacers included with spares/options.

All parts included to adjust toe, anti dive, anti squat and roll centres.

Pinions are a pain to fit.

More difficult to balance with spikes under chassis (ball bearings work much better than spikes).

Diffs are very easy to build as per the instructions but large o-ring expands and needs replacing every time the diff is opened.

Shocks are rebuilt once air is in them, about once every 2 months.

Requires short springs.

Requires bumper upgrade as kit one is floppy and lower deck can be broken in crash.  Either add a brace or use xray hard bumper.

Plain steel suspension pins and shock shafts.  Suspension pins have started to tarnish.

 

That's pretty much all I can think of.  If anything else comes up I'll add it on.

 

For me the T4 is the way to go...  Something not on the list is corner speed and lap times.  Those are what really make the T4 the car for me.

[qatmix]

Our club is indoor tight with boards. We used to run foams but have recently started to run rubbers (Although they are optional)

The TRF's (just change the C-Hubs to the std plastic ones not the carbon reenforced ones). My car is the most reliable there, it is the most expensive (although not much more than the Xray) but as mentioned above it comes with those hop-ups that the Xray doesn't.

Parts are easy to get for the Tamiya's Fusion etc have the main consumables (C-hubs and uprights). In over 2 years on my 417 I have replaced very little on the car, probably less than

Edited May 29, 2013 by qatmix

[ta05]

useful info guys, im swaying more to the xray t4

[Quantra]

Just to throw a spanner in the works have you considered an Awesomatix?  Pretty sure that will be my next car...  Need something to build at least xD

[qatmix]

Just to throw a spanner in the works have you considered an Awesomatix?  Pretty sure that will be my next car...  Need something to build at least 

 

 

you could buy a 417 and a T4 for that

[ratman]

Some Others to chuck in the mix.

Yokomo bd7. Awesome car, parts support aint too good in the uk. Not sure how strong they are

Vbc wildfire. It loooks so pretty. Dunno much more.lol

Top racing photon ex. Good car in alot of ways.

For me it would be a trf because i love mine,Never had a car ive been so quick with, its reliable (stronger than the xrays imo)actually feels different when I change something. Apparently there Is a new tamiya in the pipeline for w end of the year

[samshirley001]

id say get a 417 v5.

apparently other cars try to be a tamiya, not the other way round. plus dem shocks, cant beat trf shocks.

[ratman]

Another car to.consider is the newest serpent 411

[ta05]

Due to supplier commitments, I would only be able to get tamiya, shumacher or X-ray.

 

Im still swaying towards the T4 though....

[qatmix]

Change is always good, I very nearly got the T4, (I loved my T1 evo) but after beating them with my 417 I couldn't see the point ;P

[ta05]

 

T4

Battery is not adjustable with kit parts.

 

 

As in moving the battery to a forward/backward configuration, or general adjustment for different size lipos?

[ta05]

Change is always good, I very nearly got the T4, (I loved my T1 evo) but after beating them with my 417 I couldn't see the point ;P

I've been very brand loyal with Tamiya, i've owned 4 different Tamiya cars but now I feel the x-ray is the car to have.

 

What swayed it for me was the x-ray durability.

 

At my local club, (from what i've seen), the schumachers and my tamiya have been the least reliable and the x-rays appear to break less.

[dopeydog]

Hmm I used to go through rear belts on my t3 every few meetings. Never had to change on one my trf even running mod. The t3 seemed to eat bearings though. The plastics seem durable but tweakable and my friends with T4s seem to break more things than they did withT3s. I drove one for an hour the other day and it drove like my old T3 but just a bit better. The trf just feels a bit more precise but I would say yoko is the car to have.

[ta05]

Hmm I used to go through rear belts on my t3 every few meetings. Never had to change on one my trf even running mod. The t3 seemed to eat bearings though. The plastics seem durable but tweakable and my friends with T4s seem to break more things than they did withT3s. I drove one for an hour the other day and it drove like my old T3 but just a bit better. The trf just feels a bit more precise but I would say yoko is the car to have.

I remember taking Dom to Eastbourne last year for a big meeting and his t3r had a hub bearing fail on him, but his car had seen a lot of use.

 

As to belt wear, I never broke a single one on my 415, using 19t, 27t or 13.5 boosted in 4 years of racing!

 

I think this has something to do with setting the belts as loose as you can get away with.  Overtightening has been a reason for many belts prematurely failing, imo.

 

Well, the proof of the pie is in the eating I guess.... Just got to get things in motion sooner or later and get the new car!

 

I don't think anyone at Horsham uses the T4, only T3s but hey ho.... hopefully the T4 can outshine them lol!

[Quantra]

As in moving the battery to a forward/backward configuration, or general adjustment for different size lipos?

 

 

You can't move the battery forwards/backwards or side to side.  The kit battery mount can't be adjusted to accommodate different size packs.

 

I got round this with some servo mounts and got everything mounted up Tamiya style.  The servo mount is drilled and tapped for the front inner mount.

 

 

As for durability on the T4 vs 417, they are both strong, crash either one hard enough or hit it in that unlucky way and they will both break.  For me though what makes the T4 slightly tougher is the suspension pins and blocks.  I think that the xray style mounts are less likely to bend in a crash than the 417 but it's kind of hard for me to compare durability when I have driven the 417 for a year and the T4 just a few months...  of course the T4 appears more durable to me now, I've never broken it but there is still time.

[samshirley001]

you even sure you want to do touring?

M Class and GT Seem to be doing out well, and I'm enjoying my Mclass more than my TRF

[ta05]

Thanks again Quantra, very informative

 

If all else fails, if that is the stock chassis you are using, i'll just use glass fibre tape to hold the lipo in   I had to modify my 415 to accept lipo so I doubt it will pose much of a problem if the stock mountings do not suit my lipo.

 

Sam - I've always been into touring cars since they were first made by Tamiya in the 90s and never looked back, lol.

 

Since the time they came out, I have only used a mardave mini once!

[ta05]

Well, I've completed the text to the tt01 build, now to match the text to the pictures.

 

Once thats done and burnt to a disc, I can get my T4... providing there are no supplier issues

 

It feels wierd, the start of a new era having a new car that I have no experience of and no spare parts for it lol....

 

I really want to build it up and obviously get the setup nailed first time but I suspect there will be a lot of tinkering to do at the track!

 

Countless hours of building, installing electrics and another batch of photos and a build review..... ouch! lol.

[ta05]

The main problem I have is that although I can race a car with consistent lap times and build a car to kit spec, I do not know how to optimize a cars handling. 

 

I mould myself to an ill handling car at times -  and I know that it is a very bad habit to have.

 

My current car is worn out and nervous to drive on its limit.

 

people say tyres a 90% setup, but I am not so sure.

 

I am hoping the local racers can help me with this.

[qatmix]

Car handling is based around the following rough order..

Tyres

Additive

Springs

Oils

Shock tower mount

Camber

Toe (in or out) front

Toe (in or out) rear

The other settings are just fine adjustments. I would honestly say the Tyres / additive is the big ticket for any car, suspension is next and then the rest is more fine tuning for it to fit your style.

For example I take flowing lines, I like TRF cars as the rear end is nervous so I can rotate at will. The Xrays seem really stuck in the corners and I am quite a bit slower with them as the car is numb to my steering, although messing with the springs, camber and anti squat it can actually rotate.

[ratman]

If you want to learn about how things effect setup etc the get a copy of xxx main. Its a brilliant book

[ta05]

Useful info guys

 

Ever since I have raced the 415 I have never changed the rear toe, 3degrees on the rear, 0 deg front, 4.5mm front and rear ride height, coupled with a front diff, fixed centre layshaft and foams give me massive amounts of steering and I like that - I can feel where the car is going as it changes direction quickly.

 

I am known to everyone at the club for my aggressive driving style both in throttle and steering, I think that mostly boils down to a lot of 27t racing outdoors on big tracks where you are on the throttle for a long amount of time lol.

 

I would say, looking at the top 3 guys in our local club that their driving style is much smoother in steering and their car is setup to be less aggressive.

 

The way I look at racing is that it is possible to feather the steering and make a fast steering car slower (if that makes sense) as and when you need to, but still retain fast steering, which in turn gives you the chance to make a quick, unexpected pass on someone.

 

If I see a chance to pass someone I will, I very rarely hold back - but obviously if there is contact and the outcome favours me I always back off and let the other guy pass me again.

 

As for suspension settings, once I had the right springs on my car, I have always laid the back suspension down fully, and the front are bolt upright.

 

This for me has prevented grip roll and made the car relatively stable. Although the 415 is tired now, the amount of steering it generates still leaves me with a car that I know what its doing.

 

Sorry for the long post, simply trying to explain things as they are and hopefully transfer some of my setup and preferred driving style into the incoming T4 - I hope it's a car that will suit me. 

Edited June 7, 2013 by ta05